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Diglett Suspect Thread

Discussion in 'Gen 6 LC' started by fitzy, May 23, 2016.

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  1. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    Discuss the possibility of Diglett being banned from the ORAS LC tier.

    Use this thread to discuss Diglett's effect on the metagame. Talk about the different sets they can use, possible partners & team support, and potential checks & counters. State your opinion on whether you think they should be banned or if it should stay in the Little Cup meta.

    All opinions are valid and discussion amongst players is not only allowed but encouraged, provided your judgment is backed with sound reasoning and validation coming from experience having played with / against Diglett in the tier. Do not simply say "it's broken" or "it's not broken."

    Theorymon is not valid and may result in an infraction. Please read the guidelines before posting. Happy posting!

    You have two weeks from posting to discuss this. At the end of that two week period if discussion isn't unanimous (or close to it) then those who have posted coherent arguments in this thread will be invited to PM me votes. If you missed out on the discussion then you will still be able to vote if you provide proof of playing LC on either PS or PO (we have the exact same tier so I'll accept this) and a small paragraph explaining your vote.
     
  2. MUMU

    MUMU DNR KILLED IT

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    okay so I discussed with former lc gym leader jiten on this and here is his say on it, I will roughly use my own language to express it, yes, there are pokemon that resist diglett and win 1v1 easily, but thing is, there is no way to switch out of it, and it can easily trap and take out vital pieces of any team or a certain check to specific pokemon, pawniard or drifloon for example, taking out crogunk, trubbish ponyta larvesta for the first and chinchou and magnemite for the latter and have that pokemon sweep unopposed, also is a blisteringly fast pokemon that can usually ko anything after they took out a pokemon if they are at a type disadvantage, also, its bulk maybe terrible but that doesn't stop it from trapping key pokemon, and it can still use its 1 immunity regardless,it is one reason why stall isn't used in the tier, as trapping makes it unplayable vs many offensive build with diglett in it.

    so all in all, the ability of diglett to easily pick off any weakend pokemon or ones with type disadvantage on top of the fact that it can very easily take out counters to specific attackers letting them sweep effortlessly means diglett should be banned in oras lc

    edit: he just reminded me to add that diglett can also pull a memento set and let problematic things like smashers and drummers to set up very easily, destroying some builds fairly easily
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
    Funbot28 likes this.
  3. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    I find Diglett to have a bad presence to the tier due to the strain it put son teambuilding and the constant predictions the opposing player will always need to make when facing it. Diglett basically makes mons that are weak to Ground (such as Chinchou, Ponyta, etc) a liability on certain teams. This is extremely important, as the removal of certain Rock, Steel, and Electric type Pokemon make it so much easier for Flying-type sweepers such as Fletchiling and Drifloon, and this is why I think Diglett is so much of a threat. Its incredibly high base speed also allows it to outspeed every non-scarfed Pokemon and practically 2HKO and sometimes OHKO everything with Life Orb Earthquakes. I believe the strain it puts on teambuilding coupled with the super solid offensive cores it creates with Flying-types makes me believe it should be banned.
     
  4. Samphire

    Samphire Too much hard work!

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    Diglett is one of those mons which I feel a bit mixed about. I have never personally had a problem with them, whether that be because I like to use weird stuff, I do not know. However I can see where people are coming from with it, and I think Diglett's true threat lays in its speed tier but also the support it provides for other mons. Diglett's main cruxes are hazards like SR (to break ones using Sash), Sticky Web, and Pokémon that can actually take a hit and counter back, as it is rather flimsy. Boosted priority moves could also do the trick.

    However if someone is playing a Diglett well, they can control the battle due to the Arena Trap ability. It also allows them to trap and potentially kill main threats to their sweeper or another mon (such as Drifloon) allowing the other pokémon to capitalise and dominate after that.

    At the moment I am still weighing up my opinion. I might do some damage calcs later on some stuff, to see if that will help me make up my mind, else I'll see what anyone else posts as well.
     
    Dominique-XLR and Funbot28 like this.
  5. E.T.

    E.T. SSSSSSSSSSSSS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Diglett is an effective trapper and revenge killer. Thanks to Arena Trap, common Pokemon such as Chinchou, Ponyta, Larvesta, Pawniard, and Abra (after sash breaks) can be trapped and defeated. The common set for Diglett is:

    Diglett @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
    Level: 5
    Ability: Arena Trap
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Sucker Punch
    - Substitute/Stealth Rock/Memento

    Life Orb gives you the ability to score OHKOs against the bulkier things that you want to trap, so in my opinion, it is the better option. Substitute gives you a way to bypass Sucker Punch users like Pawniard when trying to trap them.

    As a trapper, what sets Diglett apart from something like Gothita is its excellent speed tier which allows it to utilize LO or Focus Sash instead of needing to rely on a choice scarf. Diglett also has an immunity to Electric moves which makes Volt Switch users think twice. Sucker Punch also gives Diglett a way to deal with weakened scarf users, priority users, and it can even bypass the speed tie with Elekid once it is in range.

    Fletchling makes a good teammate for Diglett because it can draw out Chinchou or Magnemite, bop them with U-Turn, and feed them to Diglett. Mienfoo can do the same thing with Ponyta and Larvesta.

    As far as being broken goes, I think Diglett is on the broken side of the borderline. Diglett is an excellent trapper and revenge killer. However, outside of revenge killing, good prediction or Volt-Turn support are usually required to get Diglett in safely. Focus Sash might give you more opportunities to switch in if you can keep hazards off the field, but as I mentioned before, the power drop for not using Life Orb is significant. Honestly, I would be okay either way, but if I had to choose, I’d say Diglett should be banned.
     
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  6. Dominique-XLR

    Dominique-XLR I'm a simple man. I see boobs, I like.

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    Just my 2 cents.

    By nature trappers have no counters. So arguing along that line is a bit of a slippery slope.
    What sets him apart from gothita is his speed tier, immunity to electric moves and freedom of item. This is where shit gets borked.

    Diggy just does so more than trapping stuff. He's a revenge killer by default. He can also set rocks and use memento to provide setup opportunity.

    If your electric type isn't sporting scarf, it's trapped and killed. If it's scarfed, the sheer presence of duggy makes it incredibly dangerous to click volt switch. Unlike Gothita continuous pivoting doesnt help. In fact if Duggy is carrying the sub set, get ready to lose two mons.

    He can run LO or sash, even band isn't completely stupid since immunities wont be able to switch in.

    Lastly, I'd like to remind everyone how dangerous combination Duggy+ Fletchling is.

    Edit: Welp, ET has ninja'd me.
     
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  7. Jethalal

    Jethalal (~o.o)~ So Spooky ~(o.o~)

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    Diglett is mon which definately limits teambuilding. With good speed tier and trapping abilities its been an effective revenge killer. I think diglett with a flying type mon core make it more threatning as it synergises so well. Variety of support moves like memento rocks etc is a plus. scarf, band, sash, lo all the items are viable but sash or lo is better most of the times. Voltturn cores are benfited most by diglett since it just gets a kill.

    But with all these advantages its frail defenses cant be ignored. It gets revenged by any decent scarf and priorty it has sub for mind games against sucker. Sash to take a hit but not hit hard enough then.
    Im ok with both ban or no ban tbh but if i have to choose one it would be ban.
     
  8. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    As per the discussion in this thread Diglett has been banned from LC. The overpowered combination of great speed, enough attack and a trapping ability makes it too easy for teammates (particularly flying types) to overwhelm the Metagame.
     
    Funbot28 likes this.
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