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Lelouch of the Rebellion (Code Geass)

Discussion in 'Active Themes' started by Whereabouts Unknown, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Lelouch of the Rebellion

    So I thought to myself, what does the server need more of? After deliberating it for a while, I decided the answer was more anime themes experimental game mechanics!

    Actually, I was initially going to make this with an original lore, but I decided, why not make use of one of the most popular anime series, when it works almost perfectly with the theme's gimmicky mechanic?

    To avoid confusion with a previously active theme, CG, I have named this one Lelouch of the Rebellion. Altname: LOTR. Wait. Goddammit.

    Okay, onto serious stuff. This is a picture that will make sense soon.
    [​IMG]

    Yes, this is a 12 player theme with some of the favorite characters from the Code Geass main series. What's unique about this theme is that, like in the anime, the sides are never quite as simple as they would like to be.

    Win Conditions:

    This theme is not Village vs Mafia. It also isn't factional. Instead, each individual role has a list of opposing roles they must eliminate in order to win. For instance, Lelouch must eliminate Cornelia, Schneizel, and Charles. All of this information is explained in /roles.

    Roles:

    Lelouch Knows Nunnally on startup. Can Promote or Demote one person during the Night, changing their Vote to 3 or -2 respectively. Can Protect any. Can Expose during the day (may be fake). Ignores Distract. Counters daykills. Wins when Cornelia, Schneizel, Charles, and Mao are eliminated. 5+

    Charles Can Brainwash one person during the Night, preventing them from voting (brainwashed roles can reveal their role to Charles if not his enemy). Can also Restore to reverse that. Immune to nightkills. Immune to Lelouch's Promote/Demote. Wins when Lelouch, Suzaku, and C.C. are defeated. 5, 8+

    Suzaku Can shift modes between Recon, Radiant, and Flight.
    • [Recon] Can /Scout to learn if someone is an enemy. Appears as friendly to other Scouts. Vote of 1.1. Evades Nightkills.
    • [Radiant] Can kill during the Night. Counters daykills.
    • [Flight] Can daykill (70% chance to reveal) and cannot be daykilled by Kallen's Flight mode.
    Wins when Kallen, Charles, Mao, and Toudou are defeated. 3+

    Kallen Can shift modes between Recon, Radiant, and Flight.
    • [Recon] Can /Scout to learn if someone is an enemy. Appears as friendly to other Scouts. Vote of 1.1. Evades Nightkills.
    • [Radiant] Can kill during the Night. Counters daykills.
    • [Flight] Can daykill (30% chance to reveal).
    Wins when Suzaku, Xingke, Villetta, and Cornelia are defeated. 3+

    Cornelia Vote counts as 4. Can Kill three times per game. Every time she kills, her vote is halved, but each kill has an increased chance to pierce (10%, 55%, 100%). Can Safeguard. Wins when Lelouch, Ougi, and Kallen are defeated. 5-12

    Toudou Can Inspect during the Night. Can Kill once every two days, starting Day 3 (20% chance to reveal). Voteshield of -1. Wins when Xingke, Suzaku, and Schneizel are defeated. 6-12

    Xingke Can Inspect during the Night. Can Kill once every two days, starting Day 3 (45% chance to reveal). Voteshield of -1. Wins when Kallen, Toudou, and Schneizel are defeated. 8-12

    Schneizel Can Distract 1 person during the Night, causing paranoid Inspects. Can Observe (stalk+watch). Can Frame, which makes the target's voteshield count as +4. Haxes Promote and Demote. Wins when Lelouch, Tamaki, Toudou, and Xingke are defeated. 6+

    C.C. Can Distract once every two nights. Can Distract2 once every three nights. Can fake any of Lelouch's exposes. Vote doubler. Immune to nightkills and poison. Immune to Lelouch's Promote/Demote. Wins when Charles, Rolo, Orange, and Tamaki are defeated. 7, 9-12

    Ougi Can Investigate (learns targets vote power). Gains a nightkill and ignores Distract once Suzaku is defeated. Wins when Cornelia, Orange, and Rolo are defeated. Wins when Cornelia, Orange, and Rolo are defeated. 10+

    Orange Can Revert someone's vote to what it was originally during the Night (this inspects the target if they were affected by Lelouch/Charles). Gains a nightkill which can kill immunes once Kallen is defeated. Wins when C.C., Ougi, Mao, and Rolo are defeated. 10+

    Rolo Can Kill during the night, with an increasing chance to suicide (0%, 10%, 25%, 50% repeatedly). Changes target to kill C.C. if she Distracts. Counters lynch, but this also increases his next suicide chance by 1 level. Loses lynch counter if he is at 50% suicide rate. Wins when C.C., Orange, Ougi, and Villetta are defeated. 12+

    Milly Vote counts as 0. If Exposed, appears as random. Wins if lynched during the day, but a random person to lynch her dies.

    Mao Can Scan one person during the night, which is stalk+watch+inspect+learn vote count. Immune to nightkills. Vote doubler. Can kill during the day (not revealed) once Lelouch is defeated. Haxes Kill, Inspect, Promote, Demote, and Distract. Wins when Lelouch, Nunnally, Orange, and Suzaku are defeated. 13+

    Nunnally Knows Lelouch on startup. Vote counts as 99. Begins game Brainwashed by Charles. Is unaffected by Promote and Demote. Wins when Charles, Mao, Ougi, and Xingke are defeated.

    Tamaki Can Poison or Detox someone during alternate nights. Can Meet one person during the night (learns identity, but reveals user). Wins when C.C., Cornelia, Schneizel, and Villetta are defeated.

    Villetta Can Poison or Detox someone during alternate nights. Can Meet one person during the night (learns identity, but reveals user). Wins when Kallen, Rolo, Tamaki, and Toudou are defeated.

    Spawn
    Under Construction.

    Priority
    [1] Cornelia (Safeguard)
    [2] C.C. (Distract)
    [3] Schneizel (Distract)
    [4] Rolo (Distract)
    [5] All Bodyguards (Protect)
    [10] Rolo (Poison)
    [11] Cornelia (Kill)
    [12] Kallen [Radiant] (Kill)
    [13] Suzaku [Radiant] (Kill)
    [14] Orange (Kill)
    [15] Ougi (Kill)
    [20] Suzaku/Kallen [Recon] (Scout)
    [21] Suzaku/Kallen (Convert)
    [22] Xingke (Inspect)
    [23] Toudou (Inspect)
    [24] Ougi (Meet)
    [30] Orange (Revert)
    [31] Lelouch (Promote/demote)
    [32] Charles (Silence)

    Concerns/Ideas for Expansion
    Balancing this was really difficult. It will probably take several tests. I tried to make weak characters enemies with other weak characters.

    I think I've fixed it so that nothing should stall. If it does, sorry. I'll fix it if you post what happened.

    C.C. can't really get rid of Rolo by herself. I fixed her matchup with Mao though. Could try the same thing for Rolo.

    The Vote Phase is going to be chaotic as hell. I was thinking about making it so a player knows when they are under the influence of a Geass, but is not informed which. E.g., their vote could be +3, -2, or 0, but at least they know it's risky to try voting.

    With Mao there are 13 roles, though he's not part of the round table 12. I have ideas for extra roles, including Kaguya, Gino, Anya, and even some teammates for existing characters: Nunally for Lelouch, Euphemia for Suzaku, Tamaki for Kallen, Guilford for Cornelia, Kanon for Schneizel, V.V. for Charles. I could get this to hosting ~30 players, which is higher than the max we get lately. But for now, I just to test if the concept works. Also I'm so tired of coding x_x

    I've also mostly finished coding an Item system revolving around Lloyd and Rakshata. If I ever take this to peak, they'll probably be 14p additions.


    Thanks for reading! Check out the code or give it a spin the simulator if you feel like it.
    Code (Geass) Here
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  2. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    If I recall, something very similar to this was created, although I can't remember who made it or what it was called. Anyway, you have a nice idea, but of course the name should be shorter (maybe just Lelouch would work).

    Anyway, I didn't really go too deep into anything, but why do some characters have less enemies to defeat, and why do some have more? Is it just for the sake of balancing? Or am I missing something?

    If I were the author of this, I'd probably be wary of the spawn list. Obviously it is unknown on how it would work out...

    Honestly you should keep this a non-peak theme. The idea is quite complex and things could become quite chaotic in larger games. Also, I thought non-peak had to support 13 players :o Assuming it is a required thing, you'd have to add in Mao at 13p, who would have an advantage since he would have the least amount of enemies to defeat (and a disadvantage to Lelouch).

    I think your voting phase would be extremely chaotic. You have so much going on with that: silencing, vote shields, reverting votes, just a lot in general. A lot of these changes may be disadvantages to characters like Lelouch: he can't kill directly, so he has to rely on either other people kill his target, or by voting them off (assuming he can find them).

    Also, Xingke...what exactly is the point of his only using his daykill every 3 days? I mean, medium sized games already last less than 6 nights, and he already has to wait three days to use it anyway. At that rate, Xingke will only be using his daykill once per game (assuming he survives three nights), and on top of that, he can be revealed.

    One thing I like about this theme is how you can work together with one of your non-enemies in order to defeat your own enemies and their enemies as well. However, if someone manages to defeat all their enemies...does the game auto end? If that is the case, then really if you team up with someone, you're just gonna end up using them...unless I'm missing something again. :x

    Many roles (like Lelouch) seem to have to rely on cross-fire in order to win...I think you should give them their own effective ways of defeating their opponents (I see Lelouch having an especially difficult time defeating his enemies, since he can't directly kill them, and one of them has the ability to kill, another can make his vote count as nothing (which isn't great since his real effective way is voting his opponents off), and another just has a larger vote than he does. I mean...an expose doesn't help him much in the long run. It mainly just helps the people whom he relies on in order to kill his targets. Identifying CC isn't much of a help either, since she can't kill.

    I'm kinda tired right now and a bit sick, hopefully I didn't miss anything or skipped anything. If I did, I apologize. Anyway, good luck ~
     
  3. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Let me know if you find it. And for the name, I'm going with CG (Lelouch of the Rebellion) for now.

    This is almost never the case. At 12p everyone has 3 enemies. At 5p and at 6p everyone has 2 enemies. Some intermediate levels have slightly lopsided conditions, but it should balance out by meta-awareness.

    The only character that has only 2 is Mao, and he only spawns at 4, 7, and 10 for the purpose of balancing spawn. Lelouch and C.C. would otherwise have too few enemies at those points. Mao never spawns when all of Lulu or C.C. have their other 3 enemies spawn. He's only a filler, and Lelouch/C.C. never have 4 enemies at once.

    See above. It was really hard coming up with combinations that balanced well at multiple spawn points. I might nerf Cornelia and/or Charles because at 8p they only have 2 of their enemies, while everyone else has 3.

    Vengeful only supports like 10p iirc. Anyway, if I did 13p, I'd likely add Milly as a conspirator and then add Lloyd/Rakshata at 14. Then I'll start adding new cores from Tamaki/Gino/Kaguya.

    Lelouch is insanely strong in the vote phase because he has so much information. He's the only one that knows (almost) what everyone's votes are. He can /Expose, and, especially if C.C. is around to throw around fakes, only he knows which ones are true, which means he can learn stuff without revealing it to everyone. (C.C. can also deduce that the ones that aren't hers are true. Teamwork.) He's effectively a mayor since he can /promote himself night 1. His Geass also goes last, meaning he can trump Charles and Orange.

    He kind of has to use it only once. Inspect will take care of Toudou. Against Kallen he'll need assistance anyway, either from a Geass, xfire, or vote support. He should only use it to kill Schneizel. The same goes for Toudou. If he lasts until n6 in like a 12p game, he might try sniping Kallen's Flight form, but honestly, Kallen should usually be in Radiant anyway.

    No, if you defeat your enemies, you "win" and then everyone else in the game continues playing until there are only winners left. You can't vote or use actions after winning.

    Actually, Lelouch and C.C. are incredibly powerful if they work together. There's almost nothing that can beat them, since they have a whopping 6 votes together, and C.C. can stall anyone that threatens them. By himself though, Lulu is insanely weak to Cornelia, so I'm wondering if I should weaken Cornelia's Safeguard. But Lulu ruins Schneizel, who basically only has his 5 votes going for him. I might make Schneizel weaker to Geass, though, because it might stall if he realizes he has -3 votes. Against Charles, it's about even.

    Thanks!

    P.S. I'm going to change the demoted Geass to -2 to that it doesn't stall in a 1v1 between a + and - Geass.
     
  4. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    Will do.

    Yeah, was just a bit confused as to why some people had more and why some had less. Is there something that happens that prevents everyone from having the same amount of enemies?

    I didn't even notice that :O yes, they would definitely need some kind of nerf. I think just some type of small game version of their role would work best.

    Not sure how a conspirator would work in this theme. Imo it kinda strays away from the "defeat your enemies in order to win". A conspirator...eh, not sure how it would work out. Unless you made the conspirator role something very interesting.

    I didn't know he could promote himself :o I mean, I think it works well, I'm just worried in situations where only Charles and Orange remain. I mean, he seems to be the weaker of those three. CC only comes in at 7players anyway. Also, even if he does promote himself, Charles could change his vote to zero (the following night). Also, when Lelouch promotes/demotes someone, does that person know what type of effect occurred? And is the effect permanent?

    Idk, I just thought it was weird that he could only kill once every three days, and he already had to wait three days before using it. I suggest lowering the reveal chance though, or maybe just removing it altogether. Against Kallen, well, Geass, xfire, and vote support may not be remaining in the game. I'd suggest everyone having an effective way of defeating their enemies, even if when alone. But these occurrences are probably really rare.

    Oh ok, was kinda confused by that :x

    C.C. doesn't come in until 7 players, so I'm just worried about Lelouch being a bit weaker in smaller games. Cornelia's safeguard (imo) should be weaker, and yes, things can stall out with that -3 vote on Schneizel.

    No problem :] And yeah that would probably be best.
     
  5. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    No, the amount of enemies is always the same. Everyone has 3. Mao is an extra to make things work in awkward sized games.

    Well Charles is pretty weak already. I think I'll just make Cornelia's Safeguard not block Protect.

    There'd be two kinds of conspirators. One is Diethard, who would work like Sidoh in DN, meaning whomever he joins, he wins alongside (he'd also be required to join someone before they've won). Milly would probably be just a rogue that only needs to survive.

    He's actually the strongest of the three. 1v1 he can lynch Chares unless he gets outplayed. If he's concerned, he can just promote himself every day. He doesn't need to beat Orange, but the same thing applies. People don't know if their vote is played with atm. Thinking about changing that to make the vote phase less chaotic.

    The reveal chance is because he has priority over Toudou. Toudou's reveal chance is consequently lower. Suzaku/Kallen are just stronger, but they also have strong enemies.
     
  6. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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  7. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Really, did you read introduction of the OP. CG has been off the server for quite some time, but if it comes back, I'll change the altname to something like CG:HnL.
     
  8. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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  9. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Cornelia's Safeguard is now a standard SG. But now her kills have an increasing chance to pierce.

    I realized 10p was a really bad setup, and it still kind of is, but at least now the weakest roles have weak enemies. I changed Mao to 9p and pushed Schneizel back to 11+.
     
  10. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    This was surprisingly easier to understand than I expected. Since you have at most 3 targets, it's easy to know where to focus even if you don't know what anyone else can do. Perhaps having stuff to encourage alliances (even if only some /tips) and make it clearer that it's a goal-driven free-for-all format are my suggestions to improve the concept (balance is hard to tell at this point yet).

    P.S.: Make winners immune to everything too, having your name actually listed when the game ends is important due to ego-feeding reasons.
     
  11. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Okay, did the immortal winners thing.

    Still making minor tweaks to balance, mainly because I realized some things won't work in practice.

    Suzaku/Kallen Recon forms have 1.1 vote instead of -1 voteshield - the idea was that Recon beats Radiant in a 1v1 but if there are living winners then the other could just tie the vote on some random winner, defeating the purpose of the voteshield. Therefore, awkward vote to make Rock-Paper-Scissors playable.

    I gave Schneizel Hax on Kill to buff him and Cornelia, since neither of them really have any way of gathering information. But if Cornelia spams, they can connect to counter Lelouch/C.C. which are a really powerful combination. It also makes Kallen/Suzaku less safe using Radiant, even if they aren't technically enemies of Schneizel, because Schneizel's likely allies (Cornelia, Charles) are their enemies. This ultimately helps Toudou and Xingke as well.

    Speaking of them, Toudou/Xingke kills are every 2 nights, still starting night 3.

    (23:25:45) ±Murkrow: Miki Sayaka updated the theme CG.

    "Milly Ashford joins the smash!"

    Annoyed because we kept getting 10p when I knew it was the worst spawn, I coded Milly and made 10p=9p+Milly. Milly wins by getting lynched.

    Couple other changes:
    Charles' Geass goes last, and Charles himself can't be affected by Lelouch's Geass.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
  12. Roild

    Roild Member

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    Could always try Knightmare as a name? While not fully accurate in all cases, it is the system of which the majority of these people will be disposing of each other (or per the flavor). Or just call it CG/Code Geass. It really doesn't matter if there was a theme named like that before. I promise nothing will implode if the name matches a previous one.

    The mechanic is interesting. It's a unique non-peak setup. Idk why roles1-3 though. In general, some of the messages could be flavored to suit the theme. Like the winmsg in general. Realizing a completed win-con could be changed to finding a peace among the survivors after war. I assume most obvious combinations won't happen because of the win con needed, so it wouldn't even be canonically erroneous? :D
     
  13. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    This. Trainers didn't have much of an issue with the fact that a theme called Trainer existed before, and even the current Kirby theme was a different theme by someone who got the name before I finished coding mine (but that one sucked hard, then I took the name over). No need to overcomplicate the name because of themes that do not exist anymore.
     
  14. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    roles1-3 to alleviate my ocd, since this really needs a different spawn set for each # of players, might as well have them correspond. I improved the winmsg, and also fixed a couple odd typos.

    As for the name, I'll just leave it CG (Lelouch of the Rebellion) because everyone knows what CG means (or for anyone who doesn't, Lelouch will indicate for them).

    Oh, and I also gave Charles a pseudo inspect. His /Restore now tells you the role of the target you gave a vote back to. It has to be used on someone who is already brainwashed though. This should make it more appealing to use, and also discourage keeping your allies silenced.
     
    Fate Testarossa likes this.
  15. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    "Let's get this party started!" -Gragas, the Rabble Rouser

    Creativity
    I honestly didn't delve deep into the Code Geass lore as I only skimmed through wikipedia's list of characters for the anime, but from what I was able to pick up regarding character personalities, skills, and events in the story, I'd say that, for the most part, they parallel with the roles' abilities in the theme (Lelouch's hiding through his alter-ego of Zero [self BG] to avoid detection, Cornelia's combat ability [nightkill, safeguard to defend herself from the influence of a geass, vote of 4], Schneizel's superior strategic ability [PL causing wrong inspects], C.C.'s description of being an immortal witch [evades nightkills and poison], and Ougi's protective nature [BG, second BG every other night] to name a few). There were a few roles where I didn't understand why their abilities were what they were, but considering I know next to nothing regarding this anime, there could be something I'm missing. C.C. needs to be told in her help that she evades nightkills and poison. Mao isn't told he dies if distracted twice by C.C. in the same night; not sure if that was intentional or not. Lelouch may need to be told it can use its commands on itself. (I assumed he couldn't until I ran the theme in Rice's simulator.) The flavor is very solid; I especially like the win messages for each role.
    Score: 4/5

    Cohesion

    The main interaction between roles is their win condition. As I was looking through the wiki earlier, I noticed that almost everyone's win conditions probably could have been altered at some point to include different people in place of the current ones. Initially, I wasn't too fond of it, as I felt that was just a showing of inconsistency in this theme, but it does contribute to the idea of forming (and betraying) alliances--all in all, it was a good touch. Outside of win conditions, I was pleased with the emphasis of the relationship between Lelouch and C.C. through their abilities (Lelouch identifies C.C. if she distracts him, C.C. is immune to Lelouch's geass [promote/demote], C.C. can fake expose to draw attention away from Lelouch's expose) considering they're the main protagonists of the anime.
    Score: 5/5

    Craftsmanship

    I judged the balance in this theme based mainly off of a character's ability or inability to 1v1 another character, but I did consider the power of potential allies as well. Lelouch can't 1v1 Charles, but can team up with Suzaku as Suzaku can daykill Charles. C.C. can't 1v1 Rolo, but can ally with Orange and/or Ougi, as they can easily kill Rolo (provided they make it to the 4th night). Charles's only threat is Suzaku, as not only can Suzaku daykill with Flight, but will also evade daykills while in Flight, meaning Kallen (a potential ally of Charles) has to be in Radiant to eliminate Suzaku. Cornelia, Kallen, Suzaku, Xingke, Toudou, Ougi, Rolo, and Mao can 1v1 all of their enemies if they play well according to the situation. Schneizel is in the same boat as the others but has to be cautious since 2 of his enemies are daykillers; enlisting the help of both Kallen (enemy of Xingke) and Suzaku (enemy of Toudou) will benefit him. Orange will most likely have trouble 1v1ing C.C. due to her multiple distracts, so allying with Charles, Rolo (another one of Orange's enemies, oddly enough), or Mao will solve this problem, as these roles can easily dispatch of her. Very few roles have enemies they can't 1v1, and the assistance they'd need to eliminate those threats will always spawn. A lot of the 1v1 potential is also not one-sided, meaning there is room for one role to outplay another (albeit this is sometimes dependent on whether the game is in the night phase, standby phase, or voting phase). Almost every role has some way of obtaining information regarding someone else's role (whether it be a direct inspect, a scanned vote, hax, an evaded kill, an expose, etc.). For the roles that don't appear to have this ability, this is compensated with some form of protection or additional ability that is unique to their role--C.C. is immune to nightkills and poison and is a vote doubler, Orange resists poison and his kill ignores immunity, and Rolo is invulnerable during the voting phase (provided he isn't a part of lynching Milly). With the number of commands and initial votecounts that are shared among people, it is relatively difficult for a role to be confirmed (especially within the first night), which means it's also pretty easy to bluff or fake another role (Kallen and Suzaku, Ougi and Orange, Toudou and Xingke). I personally believe Kallen, Suzaku, and Cornelia offer the most versatility in playstyle; Kallen and Suzaku due to their three forms to choose from, and Cornelia because her abilities are strengthened and weakened as you use her kill (voting power vs. pierce chance of kill).
    Score: 5/5

    Course

    There aren't really any unique commands that haven't already been introduced in another theme, so the roles themselves won't be that difficult to learn for most players with a basic sense of mafia. Specific abilities and mechanics (Mao dies if C.C. uses both of her distracts on him on the same night, every kill Cornelia uses weakens her vote but strengthens her subsequent kill's pierce chance) may catch others off guard though. Understanding and attempting to satisfy the win conditions is a different story, especially for players new to this theme. Since the information people can gather is "soft" (votecount, evaded nightkill or daykill, protected from a nightkill) and not "hard" (inspect, expose, reveal [Link, Kirby, Apollo]), it is not as easy to confirm someone's role, which means players that aren't paying enough attention to detail often risk "mislynching" (lynching someone they think is an enemy but isn't) or killing the wrong target. Simply put, while the commands are simple, learning how to play this theme to one's win condition isn't as simple, regardless of the player's experience. Despite a lot of the chaos, the pace is considerably easy for just about anyone to keep up with. There may be a lot of information to take in and keep track of, but after someone has played this theme at least five or so times, it won't be overwhelming (and in some cases isn't overwhelming to begin with) in any way.
    Score: 3/5

    Concept

    The uniqueness of this theme lies in its setup; it's a free for all where each individual has its own set of win conditions. That uniqueness can further be extended into the playstyle and gameplay; such a setup encourages alliances (especially for roles that have specific threats they can't eliminate on their own) as well as potential betrayals or flipping between alliances as each player chooses who they will and won't assist to aid them in ultimately achieving their own win condition. The creation and breakdown of alliances as players join forces for their own personal gain is what makes this theme exciting.
    Score: 5/5

    Overall: 22/25
     
  16. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    A theme this complex runs a risk of over-explaining abilities in the help. Some of the abilities are left implied by the /help because it's in the info. People are already overwhelmed by everything else going so adding stuff like "you are immortal to nightkills and poison, but not daykills" or "you die if distracted by C.C. twice in the same night" seems redundant. Lelouch being able to Promote himself is very important though, since it seems to be forgotten so often I might add that as a hint. If the details about C.C. or Mao are really necessary I'll add them though.

    Cohesion - Some of the win conditions (or lack thereof) are ridiculous tbh. Like there's no reason Kallen/Schneizel should get along, Xingke/Toudou tend to work together more than they fight, and literally everyone (except Orange?) should be enemies with Charles. But for risk of ruining balance, having some odd match ups is probably preferable.

    Ougi and Orange are pretty dry roles imo. The advantage is that their enemies typically can't threaten them until later in the game, so the fact that it takes 4 nights to get their kills is slightly alleviated. 1v1s can be unwinable depending on the situation, but the only one that should always win is Rolo vs C.C. I think. Lelouch can win again Charles if say, Charles silences someone who achieves their win condition while Lelouch promotes himself in the night, allowing him to win the vote. C.C. vs Charles depends on whether C.C. PL stalls him forever, allowing her to lynch him easily, or if he finds her first and silences her, which permanently disables her. Other things to depend on the synchronization of the recharges on commands like C.C. and Rolo's PL and Ougi/Orange's self-bg. Like, Orange wins against C.C. if she can't PL on n5.

    It's certainly not supposed to be an entry level theme, but I've been thinking about ways to make it more accessible. However, simplifying any role leads to some imbalance or another. There has to be enough intricacies to permit imperfect match-ups. Otherwise, 1 role would always have an upper hand over the other.

    I'm glad the experimental setup is working out for you. It's so different from other setups that it's somewhat inaccessible or simply confusing to many players. Mainly, the fact that it's played with role-specific enemies instead of teams is hard to get used to. I'll think about how some of the chaos can be cleaned up. I'm not sure how else to make it clear that it's a Win Condition setup, the /details and /tips and /help2 explain it thoroughly I think. Maybe I could rename it to CG [the theme where you don't have to kill anyone but the people it says you have to].
     
  17. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    I see your point, although some of them might affect the way someone plays their role. The main example I'm thinking of is C.C. choosing to PL nightkillers even though she evades nightkills.

    I was wondering the same thing about some of the win conditions given the relationships and interactions that existed between characters in the anime. I kind of figured any oddballs were probably a result of attempting to balance the theme.

    It wouldn't be any fun if every role was similar to another in terms of power and survivability; that would make more of the matchups determined by either a few coin flips/rands or priority. The fact that some people will need to form alliances to help patch up their own individual weaknesses and disadvantages to assist them in achieving their win condition is one of the better features of this theme. It's about working with what you have and adapting to changing situations, part of which can be accomplished with the help of others.

    I agree that you've made it clear and explained the setup of the theme. Honestly, it's just a case of whether players are properly reading everything. For those that do read everything, it's really how they choose to play to their win condition; do they randomly kill or lynch and just hope the person eliminated happens to be one of their enemies or do they try to wait for information to help them confirm whether someone is indeed an ally or an enemy? I think the former happens more in this theme because there is no such thing as teamkilling or teamvoting considering it's a free for all. The theme is simply going to take some time for people to get accustomed to; I know I still mess up a lot of things when I play this theme myself, but it's all a learning experience.
     
  18. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Couple edits:

    Toudou never gets revealed anymore because having lower priority really sucks.

    I realize Kallen was pretty badly disadvantaged against Suzaku. Kallen's Flight Daykill is now only evaded by Suzaku's Flight. Also, Suzaku's Radiant kil doesn't kill Kallen's Radiant. More symmetrical now.

    I also added the thing where you see who's already won if you do /myrole.

    Some of the Help messages are improved to explain things better too.

    I was thinking about changing Ougi/Orange too. Wondering if giving them Poison/Detox in opposition to each other would be more interesting, and giving Rolo something else. The problem is that Ougi would have no way to beat Cornelia and Orange to C.C. which would be pretty imbalanced imo. But it could make interesting interplay as they could lift each others' poisons.
     
  19. Solace

    Solace Member

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    I'm so insulted. -_- I haven't been gone that long. I'm pretty sure my flagship theme was about as experimental as things could get. So experimental in fact that I was the only one who understood how to play it. :D
    http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/code-geass.20529/

    Anyway, I still have next to no time for things in my life but if you want someone who knows this anime inside, out, back, forward, to and fro and has already made a Geass theme to assist in the project, I might be able to find some time just for you because anyone spreading the good word of Geass is great in my book. Also, I shit you not, I used the quote in your signature as my senior quote in my yearbook, it's currently my signature (with a link to the YT video of it) on my own forum, it's on my Facebook page, and it's in my Xbox Live bio. Also, I have a mousepad with Lelouch and the first half of the quote: "Do you know why snow is white?" that my mouse is currently resting on and I'm wearing a Geass necklace around my neck. Like seriously, you let me finish up my school work for this week and I will come back and be your best friend.

    ALSO, (part actually pertaining to the topic at hand): any mechanics you want out of my Geass theme, you are more than welcome to use. I am granting you and only you permission to copy my ideas. As for the code, I deleted the Pastebin it was in so I'll have to check my old computer for a copy. If I find it, I'll send it your way. Anywho, cheers.

    EDIT: You should really look at my Kallen and Suzaku. :)
     
  20. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Glad to know that this theme fits your approval.

    For some reason Charles is throwing a bunch of errors with his onDeath converts. Either he's not unsilencing people correctly, or else random people are getting silenced and I can't figure out why :/
     
  21. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Hi I'm here to complain report more bugs (yes, it's with Charles).

    Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5dsxzcmzk78axx/CG_2015.05.04_22.15.txt?dl=0
    Readlog: http://pastebin.com/jxvs05vS

    As far as I understand, Charles is supposed to revert brainwashed players when killed, but as you can see in the log, I was unable to vote from D2 onwards despite Charles being killed D2. Readlog to confirm that I was brainwashed, and if you need to check any other actions. BTW, I used /promote on myself during N2, which could be the cause of the bug.
     
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  22. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Resolved. Funnily enough, I understand why it wasn't working, but I don't understand why Charles' onDeath wasn't silencing literally every role that wasn't promoted or demoted.

    Because onDeath roles use the format { "oldRole": "newRole" } and everything else takes { "newRole": ["old roles"] } and I was using the same variable for Charles' Restore and his onDeath action, it wasn't converting silenced roles into unsilenced roles, but, theoretically, it should have done it the other way around. At least it was bugged in the way that prevented it from being downright stupid and instead simply wasn't working.

    Now that that's resolved, probably going to update with some balance tweaks soon. Taking away Xingke/Toudou's dying on Inspect is probably a good start since everyone has complained about it. I also feel like reducing Cornelia's pierce chance on her first kill again because I've seen Lelouch die n1 twice which is ridiculous. And then there's the whole Ougi/Orange thing to work on.
     
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  23. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    I honestly don't even see a reason to kill on the first night. With all the roles that evade kills or can protect themselves, it will be difficult to determine who is who based solely off of an evaded or blocked kill the first night, not to mention it weakens Cornelia's vote. I guess I can understand wanting to have a higher pierce chance later in the game, but even then, I personally don't find it useful unless the game is nearing a 1v1 between Cornelia v Ougi (or some other scenario where Cornelia has to kill or be killed [or lynched with all of the vote manipulating] against a bodyguard). Cornelia has no protection against nightkills or daykills, and her initial vote of 4 coupled with her ability to safeguard herself makes her strongest during the voting phase in my eyes; killing on the first night when you don't have any information really weakens her control/pressure over the voting phase. It might be better just to remove the first kill's pierce chance completely if you ask me.

    One concern I have is if they'd ever see a need to detox someone else (besides saving someone they may have chosen to ally with for the time being). Perhaps the detox could also function as an inspect that works only on poisoned targets (similar to Charles' restore). However, giving them poisons instead of strong kills takes away their late game pressure but gives them much more early game pressure, which I'd actually prefer in a theme like this. Every other role has something they can do (Xingke and Toudou have to wait until day 3 to daykill though) while Ougi and Orange are almost like sitting ducks in terms of kill pressure (even though they can protect themselves every other night). As for the unfavorable matchups, I'm not sure if they should have a way to directly win them (making their original kills either one time only or relatively easy to hax) or just a method of finding them sooner (something like slight hax on Cornelia and C.C.'s commands; maybe not all of them) when they have more potential allies to assist them in those matchups. Not sure what Rolo would be able to do or what changes he would need; he is able to distract which would stop Ougi and Orange from detoxing, but his poison takes much too long to kill. (If you wanted to go wild, you could make the poison kill in the same night to make Ougi and Orange wary enough to consider detoxing themselves even if they aren't poisoned; it probably would really ruin the balance though, especially for Lelouch.) All in all, I'd be in favor of this change.
     
  24. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    no one else reviewed this?

    Creativity
    Kallen and Suzaku's three mech modes, the powers of Geass from Lelouch/Charles, the fact that every role has several aspects to it make the roles very diverse. Add to the fact that the "eliminate your enemies" wincon game is a unique concept in of itself and you have a very creative theme. Lore/flavour is accurate to the anime, having watched the entirety of Code Geass as well as played the previous iteration on the server it makes sense to carry on some previous trends (Toudou inspect, C.C. PL, Ougi BG, etc).
    Score: 5/5

    Cohesion

    not much I could improve on regarding the character web besides Toudou and Xingke but they were on edge at one point! The "eliminate x y and z" thing really brings the cohesion together so that every role gets to interact with a few others in trying to eliminate them. I think the C.C. - Rolo - Orange triangle and Rolo - Orange - Ougi triangles are a bit weird because there aren't any triangles in the theme (you work together with one enemy to get the other). I'd suggest Toudou over Ougi in the 2nd triangle but that messes up everything, I can only give a complete suggestion later. Besides that I think the motivations for the enemies each role has is fairly reasonable.
    Score: 4/5

    Craftsmanship

    still think Charles needs a better way to get information in 5p since he can't actively get rid of his enemies and only has Cornelia has an ally really. the theme is full of making alliances which is really great though, and I've played a few times seeing possible win routes from a lot of roles. I could point out a bunch of ways that characters are able to get around their opponent's defenses but @EljayQuiz pointed out a lot of possibilities. overall besides the Charles point I think it's spot on with balance as far as a theme like this could go. Shame you can't use /windata reliably for this theme.

    The circles, so to speak, of powerful roles having other powerful enemies and less powerful roles being enemies with each other also creates multiple layers of battles to be fought and alliances that can be made.
    Score: 4/5

    Course

    it takes longer if you haven't read about this theme since you have to know how to deal with your opponents and every role has multiple dimensions to it. The pace might be a bit slow for nonpeak, it would be fine if it was normal size but the amount of thinking you have to do in the game may be a bi excessive. I can't say much since I'm making a Fate/Zero theme with equal complexity though. Theme isn't too difficult to follow, there's a few public messages, exposes, and the fact that it's a nonpeak means there isn't much to get lost in.
    Score: 4/5

    Concept

    the theme is fun because each role has to earn their win, not getting carried by the power roles. Most roles are pretty key but I would say Lelouch, Charles, Kallen, Suzaku are pretty powerful. When I won a game as Toudou it was because I was able to find two of those powerful roles that I wasn't enemies with and basically gave them information until I could pull out a win for myself, so it stresses the importance of working around people with power that won't kill you lol.

    All hail Lelouch.
    Score: 5/5

    Overall: 22/25
    Total Score: 44/50


    I like how this is a theme in Review and it's #1 played theme on server
     
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  25. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    So I finally updated the OP with all of these updates.

    (23:30:21) May 19, 2015: Schneizel's PL is higher priority and is no longer completely silent. He also got an Observe (watch+stalk).
    (23:30:21) June 17, 2015: Cornelia can be demoted because it's canon
    (23:30:21) June 21, 2015: Orange and Ougi got new abilities (again!). Orange keeps Revert, but it's also an Inspect on affected roles. Ougi is a Vote inspector. Both gain a kill if Kallen/Suzaku die respectively. Rolo changed, and now has a kill with increasing suicide chance - he also tries to kill C.C. if Distracted, causing him to risk dying. Winners have -99999 voteshield and competing roles have PreventTeamVote on winners.
    (23:30:21) June 23, 2015: Removed Schneizel's hax. Suzaku and Kallen can hax each other when changing forms (very small chance to identify user). Lelouch has hax on both Kallen/Suzaku's forms, as well as on Kill.
    (23:30:21) June 26, 2015: Lelouch can now Protect Any. Lelouch counters daykills. Kallen and Suzaku are more likely to be revealed on daykill. Schneizel /Observe gives the target a +4 voteshield, but his vote is changed to 1. -1 voteshield to Xingke/Toudou. Xingke evades Kallen nightkills, while Toudou evades Suzaku daykills. Lelouch ignores all PLs. Changed 6-7p setup.
    (23:30:21) June 29, 2015: Gameplay extended to 18p - request disable during peak. New roles. Schneizel has /Frame separate from Observe now. Mao is different from his former version. Lelouch does not identify C.C.'s distract.

    Trying to figure out how to work out simplicity and balance, since they are more or less on opposite sides of the same scale.
     
  26. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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    Can you put what form Suzaku/Kallen need to be in to defeat each of their enemies in help or tips or something? (unless it's already somewhere and I missed it)