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Gothita suspect

Discussion in 'Gen 6 LC' started by fitzy, Jan 22, 2015.

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  1. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Does anyone play lc on PO anymore?


    [​IMG]

    Discuss the possibility of Gothita being banned from the ORAS LC tier.

    Use this thread to discuss Gothita's effect on the metagame. Talk about the different sets they can use, possible partners & team support, and potential checks & counters. State your opinion on whether you think they should be banned or if it should stay in the Little Cup meta.

    All opinions are valid and discussion amongst players is not only allowed but encouraged, provided your judgment is backed with sound reasoning and validation coming from experience having played with / against Gothita in the tier. Do not simply say "it's broken" or "it's not broken."

    Theorymon is not valid and may result in an infraction. Please read the guidelines before posting. Happy posting!

     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
    sulcata likes this.
  2. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    My post from smogon slightly edited:

    I feel Gothita is at least worth a suspect right now in Little Cup thanks to the Choice Scarf set. This thing is almost for sure going to get a kill on something important that you want or cripple something important with Trick and let a team-mate get an easy set up. It has a good enough special movepool that it can effectively trap a decent portion of the game and kill them. The threat of trick often means defensive pokes usually can't afford to not attack the first turn which really does help.

    Goth isn't without its downsides as it's actually pretty frail and can be easily revenge killed by Pursuit Stunky/Houndour/Pawniard but that is the thing about Shadow Tag in this doesn't matter. By the time you get to pursuit it then Gothita will has already done it's job and took out whatever it chooses.

    Right now I feel like this should be banned.
     
  3. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    Why not. For old time's sake.

    Gothita, is as you have said not without downsides. I've played games where it's simply been able to fire of a Psychic, do a solid 45% to something kinda fat then just die. But in the games in which it performs, it performs invaluable service. To cripple a bulky mon/wall with Trick, or to kill off a specific counter/check for your sweepers, it just has crazy potential. One might argue that Diglett has similar potential but Diglett is even frailer than Goth and has a much more restricted range of things it can trap and deal with, not only because of its ability's limitations, but also because of its own movepool limitations, which Gothita doesn't suffer from in quite the same way.

    It seems like regurgitating from all suspects of mons with Shadow Tag before, but put simply to outplay Goth you need to take risks that are completely disproportionate, it's not impossible to Double Switch on Goth into Stunky or something with a good prediction, but the risk that prediction forces you to take can be huge, and then Goth by its mere presence without even entering the field has potential to cause major trouble for an opponent. This, of course, can happen with other Pokémon, over-prediction is common, but in the case of Shadow Taggers, it becomes the only way to deal with them without losing something really important.

    To say that Goth is without its risks isn't correct, but I feel that the risk presented by using it is far outweighed by the risks your opponent must take to deal with it without significant loss. Once it traps a member of a core (Foonguss, Chinchou, Mienfoo w/e) it can reliably start the breakdown of a team and there is no amount of good play that can save you, it's only 50/50s and taking vestigial damage in order to avoid trapping. You simply have to not kill any team members with core members that Gothita can kill unless doing so would secure victory, and make risky plays in order to not get trapped.

    Now I wouldn't say my experience with ORAS LC is vast by any means, but for what it's worth, I'd like to ban Gothita.
     
    Fuzzysqurl and fitzy like this.
  4. E.T.

    E.T. Random Slowpoke Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Gothita can be a big threat due to its potential to pick off key members of the opposing team to facilitate a sweep by another team member. However, I am not yet convinced that Gothita is broken in ORAS LC. The best set is the scarf set with something like Psychic, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Trick. The speed allows it dish out damage to things like Mienfoo, Chinchou, and Archen before they can U-Turn/Volt Switch out. The EV spread also allows Gothita to invest more in power than bulk, so that it dishes out the max damage that it can. However, the problem with this set is that you will most likely have to sack something to give Gothita a safe chance to come in due to its frailty, unless you happen to have a slow Volt Switch/U-Turn user. Another problem is that even with the extra investment in Special Attack, Gothita really isn't very strong because even if it traps something that it wants it to trap, it probably can't KO without prior damage. Also, as has already been mentioned, Gothita really dreads getting caught by Pursuit, which means that it has to be careful not to be too predictable if switching in to try to trap something.

    Since the scarf set pretty much has to be used, I think Gothita is too predictable, too frail, and too weak offensively to be considered broken. I definitely would like to hear more discussion though because it is definitely worth discussing.
     
  5. Chlorine Trifluoride

    Chlorine Trifluoride You were saying?

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    I really don't see any reason to ban it.

    I had an essay written for this but E.T. took the words right out of my mouth (fingers?) lol.
    In short:
    +COVERAGE
    +Trick
    +Shadow tag obviously
    -Weak af.
    -Slow forcing it to run scarf if it wants to do anything
    -Frail
    -Weak to pursuit/knock off/U-turn.
    -Priority is a thing

    Imo it's a pretty much as broken as diglett, trading memento for trick.

    I'll elaborate if needed but again someone beat me to the punch :c
     
  6. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    So this is at an unfortunate stalemate after three weeks. I'm not going to ban this thing at 2-2 so this suspect is over and Gothita remains allowed in LC.
     
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